24 Responses to “Episode #75”

24 Comments

Hey guys great episode… But I was just wondering where I might find a link to that “atmosphere” thing you were talking about?? It sounded pretty cool.

I listened to the episode again to see if I could find what you’re asking about, but didn’t hear anything focused especially on atmosphere.

If you can tell me roughly where it’s mentioned and/or add some context then I’ll have another look.

It should be mentioned near the area in with they are talking about “Source 2D”, and how similar it is to “Little Big Planet” and then one of the people talking mentioned a program called atmosphere that is similar to “Little Big Planet” also, and is made for the PC. Thanks for the help :D.

Hey, about Blue Portals, you mentioned something about ice cubes freezing water.

Not true. :P
We’ve gotten tons of comments about whether that’s true, and it’s not.

Also, we’ve added a new fake “dynamic water” which expands our ability to make puzzles even more. It’s nice to see you guys support the mod.

I will go ahead and say that after listening to the Source 2D segment again, we didn’t say much wrong and the criticism – while it used your mod as an example – extended to all mods they place a heavy emphasis on their PR. That was the purpose of bringing up the whole Nuclear Dawn thing. Your mod was just another example in a long list of projects that have gone down the same path and wound up as disappointing vaporware. I’m glad this critical prodding has stirred a renewed sense of motivation within the team and hope that you can provide something that’s fun to play to the community.

I have personally seen a ton of mods and mod profiles in my time at ModDB behind the scenes and have a pretty good sense of what teams actually have something substantial and which ones will flounder based on the quality of their posts.

In regards to the ageism, if you listen to the section you’ll realize I’ll bring up the ages not to question your relative development experience, but your ambition. We discuss if the mod’s concept as we understood it was a case of “dreaming too big” (in this case, you guys have already rescinded your plans of anything along the lines of a level editor) which I believe was a valid topic. At no point did we actually say that your individual abilities were in question because of your age. It’s great you guys are getting involved in a project, you are the next generation of modders. However, I’d ask that you re-listen to the segment to get the real message and look past what you may twist into personal attacks.

I apologize for William’s apology, he just wants to make everyone happy. :D

Hello there! My name is Murdouken and I’m on the Source 2D development team.

I personally agree with some of the things you’ve said, most of our stuff is pretty much ambition with less development. One thing that you have to remember is that those things you said (The little big planet stuff, and all those things) were Matt’s ideas before we got a team together and realised what was realistically possible. I noticed you had a fair amount of issues with how the game will be structured. It was me that kind of forced the moddb profile on the rest of the development team, so I’m sorry if you’ve got a problem with that. I wanted it to look nice to build up interest rather than expectations, as you said.

I just thought I’d leave a comment to let you know that we were planning a media update with a gameplay video/trailer sort of thing, and some new screenshots but due to the comments that you guys made we have accelerated this and we’re all pushing to get it done by the end of next week rather than taking our time. We should have some actual media for you very soon.

Hello Podcast17,

First thing I would like to straighten out, you guys are coming across using a lot of ageism against the game development. We are fifteen, we have the ability to learn and use these skills to create our ambition as much as a mature thirty year old man. One of the development intentions of the game is to show to potential and skills of young developers.

Some of our development staff have won awards, doing shows (with their previously composed music) and have developed major community maps and designs. I have won a national second place award for Database Programming two years ago when I was fourteen. The competition was focused at Higher Educated Students. I wasn’t believed in because of this, but I sure made a point.

Not saying you are discriminating against age, although it is sounding like it. Just don’t let age play a part of development.
Alright, now with the with the development. We currently haven’t updated the ModDb page with much development media. I’m the only one currently with the game while I sort some legal and protection for the Modification. So no one else can quite show their development just as yet.

Besides that, most of this month’s work has been documentation work. I have been working on finishing the GDD, April Development Guide, Marketing Plans, and protecting the game from other companies that we are classified as “Third Party”. Our game will feature textures, game play, characters from Nintendo and other companies. I have had a look out policy’s, talked with lawyers and designed a way we can avoid ‘stealing’ their work.

Last thing, everything is messy because all of this. We are currently redesigning the ModDb page with CSS and I will take some of your criticism in which I hopefully will be able to fix this before April.

I know its reviewing and discussing games is what you do. I respect that, but just remember development is more than visual design and been young and new to running my own game, I have to learn to deal with this stuff first.

Thanks,

Matt

Hey Matt,

glad you commented on the episode – I wasn’t happy on how ageist the Podcast turned out, but you have to understand our position (which I explained to one of your other developers). You present us with ideas of grandure, but, as Ryan points out, there isn’t much you folks are showing us in terms of content. The folks at Podcast 17 are big advocates of “keeping content locked down and show it when it’s ready”, but when you announce features with big walls of text you are “promising” content to your fans… and setting yourself up for a big content announcement. I just hope you follow through on all the details, else you will have some pretty disappointed fans.

I don’t doubt your skills as a developer, and if I could take back Ryans comments about ageism I would. We concentrated on the fact that one of the developers told Ryan that they wanted to add a slimmed down version of a “map editor”; this is an ambitious project… after talking to one of your developers, after the podcast, he clarified some of the statements made to Ryan. I fear your team might be biting off more than you can chew; however there have been MANY MANY MANY instances where I have been proven wrong by the community. I challenge you to prove me wrong, if you do… everyone will benifit.

I look forward to more updates from Source2D – I think you guys have a pretty good history (with Situation Outbreak) and you are doing something pretty unique with the source engine. Keep in mind though, Ryan originally brought up Source2D because he thought “the visuals didn’t match the hype”… I would have to agree with him – you guys have a lot of text, with nothing backing it up. I understand your posistion though, legailities, keeping things under wraps, etc. development can be difficult like that.

Forgive the ageist comments, they were not correct or professional.

Hello,

I do understand your position. I do understand and see that we were offering a lot (when the game started) and when the team came together we got rid of the imagination of in game editor until future or no development.

Once again, the in game editor is a scratch idea and was going to be done in more stable releases or not at all because it is just a high ambition. I may have not informed all the team members yet due to I have no finish the final GDD which is leaving many of the team staff uneducated and I take the blame for.

The team has taken the criticism towards the development towards the game seriously and we have added it to next months development guide to fix everything up. So just keep watching the game, and see how it turns out. Thank you for the criticism.

We all make mistakes, I just hope it was one of them. We both learn’t some new things and the only thing that truly bothered me was the ageism. I get what happens we people review games, so of course I cannot do anything but take the criticism (referring to the media and proof of work not the ageism ) seriously and do something about it.

Thank you once again for the apology for the ageism, and thank your for criticism on the game,
~ Matt

On behalf of HL2: Wars: Ah Glenn, can’t tell the difference between antlions? Play Episode Two again son! Thanks for the plug :)

Also the “spit turrets” in the dev video that shoot the acid attack aren’t part of the game. The HUD is definitely heavily inspired by COH as is a fair bit of the gameplay, our texture artist was quite inspired by COH.

Also there are more classic Warhammer tabletop style games than Dawn of War, they’re turn based, came out in the 90s, and generally involve Space Marines… but they’re out there.

haha!! I was going to correct him about the antlion comment, but couldn’t butt in at the right moment… then I think it slipped my mind; glenn is such a half-life n00b. I think though, he did mention that the turrets were a sorta “dev only thing” or something that would not be added to the game.

I never got into early table top games for PC… I had an interesting conversation this week to Arc about bringing the table top experience to the PC and we concluded that there might be enough industry push… the leader of table top gaming is GamesWorkshop and they clearly would NOT want warhammer (in it’s true form) ported to a digital platform. I can see the reasons for this, but I hope in the future they take the “valve” approach and realize how much money they could make on the warhammer franchise if it was digitized… in fact if they did port warhammer to the PC I would expect, AND AGREE WITH, DLC.

Love the intro! Phillip and William’s girlfriend (sorry, forgot her name, I know it was mentioned in one of the earlier episodes), I think … She sounded like her anyway.

@Mod appreciation episode: careful with your spare time!

@TF2 user created content:
Ryan’s got a point there, we’re starting to add makeup to the character … Although I try to use items that improve the behavior of that class.
William, they’re not changing the genre of the game. They’re broadening the vision for it, but I’m sure they’ll keep to some limits. That means no magic. Except the medigun, that magically heals people without surgery or pills :O

As for treating products as services, I guess it’s all about retaining customers.

@Class dash and what is a mod:
Gah! Any game modification is a mod. A map pack is a mod. A skin is a mod. Yes, they also have a particular label, as map packs or skin packs. And yes, there are mods that alter mode than just maps or just textures. Because of that, these kind of mods don’t have their own particular name, and they’re referred as mods.

@Steamworks:
I sooo hope for Jailbreak to implement steamwork! I know that NeoTokyo has the technical capabilities (ZPS has steamworks and I think Tatsur0 can persuade a coder to help NT with it), but I am hoping more for Jbk.

I like how the call in turned out! You’re pretty much the only podcast I know that does that. Congrats!

Her name is Stephanie… a few people were able to point out her voice – she is becomming quite the celebrity on Podcast 17.

I would have to agree AND disagree with you, I still hold by my comment that TF2 is currently undergoing a genre change, but you are also correct that they are changing the vision. I think in most cases these two ideals are very similiar in nature. Being an “RPG” genre doesn’t mean it has “magic” per-say or other mascott features of the RPG genre… it simply means people are able to customize their character and assume some sort of unique role tailored by their choices.

Yea, you are right about any addon for a game being a mod… when we were talking about Class Dash though I just didn’t want people to get confused that it was a stand-alone mod… which is why I labelled it as a map pack (meaning TF2 is needed).

I have high hopes for JailBreak as well – it has great potential.

Great Intro.

Love the new format and the ideas. The Mod appreciation episodes sounds cool, just make sure you tell people in advance what you are going to cove so they can play it.

8:30: William said “Was his sledgehammer shiny?” – How did you guys not crack up at that. I would have been laughing my A off and calling him a pervert for asking.

11:26: Glenn said “That makes me sound pretty gay.” – Yep.

Around 14:00 William asked a great question. “Can you change a genre mid stream?” The discussion focused on the way multi-genre games are becoming more common, but it didn’t really answer the question. I think it’s possible but more likely to be made into a mod than a retail game. Hasn’t somebody made a strategy game for HL2.

Nice discussion about the character who dies etc.

I ran out of time to listen to the rest.

Great work guys – keep it up.

Thanks Phillip for the kind words,

I don’t even remember talking about sledgehammers… my memory is really going on me. I think games can be “multi-genre” there is nothing wrong with that, I was just proposing the question whether changing genre mid-stream was detremential to the progress of the game/mod/whatever. I guess you are right, we really didn’t answer the question, but that’s what the comments are for!!

Glad my “Mod Appreciation” podcast idea was read on-air :3 Hopefully you guys are able to do it!

It’ll take some time for that to flurish, we are currently still working out the bugs with the “listener call-ins” and are in the process of deciding whether to do a smaller news run episode.